When Talking Isn’t Enough: How To Hold An Engaging Conversation

What would you say if I told you to quit talking to me? In fact, I want you to quit talking to everyone. What I want instead is for you to engage with others. Engagement occurs on a different level than talking to or talking at someone. When we engage, we transform our experience of ourselves and our experience of others. Let’s look at three levels of conversation and discover what it means to be engaged.

3 Levels Of Conversation

Level 1: Level 1 conversations are about exchanging stories. I tell you about my day or week and you respond with your own story that complements, outdoes or reminds you of mine. Sometimes the intent is to validate you and your experience, as in, “Oh my gosh! The same thing happened to me!” Other times we go for the attention grab: “Oh, that’s nothing! Listen to this.” While rich in information sharing and often energizing, Level 1 conversations don’t require a high level of emotional engagement.

Level 2: Level 2 conversations circle around common interests or beliefs. We hash out the latest political scandals or vent about work. In these conversations, each party seeks commonality and support of their worldview. For this reason, Level 2 conversation frequently morph into advice-giving sessions. However, engagement begins as we tap into our core interests and beliefs in these conversations.

Level 3: Here’s where the real work gets done. In level 3 conversations, we are discovering—and appreciating—the uniqueness of the individual. These conversations have more depth, more vulnerability and require deep listening for thoughtful replies. It’s not enough to share a story, though a story might be exactly what is needed to communicate understanding. It’s not enough to discover common interests or beliefs, though we likely will. Instead, we go further and make a commitment to listen and create a safe environment for others to share who they really are, rather then the person we want them to be.

Not every conversation needs to be a Level 3. In fact, that would be exhausting! A quick round of stories at the water cooler or a lunch date to gripe about the boss is fine and often all that’s needed. But look for opportunities to hold Level 3 conversations. It may be with someone you’re mentoring, with a vendor or client with whom you seek to establish a relationship or with a colleague you feel has ideas and opinions—even if they differ from yours—worth exploring at a deeper level.

These conversations take work. It’s hard to let go of judgments or stop our minds from racing to what our reply is going to be and instead be fully in the moment and listening to the person in front of us. In the long term, however, Level 3 conversations are where the deepest of friendships and business relationships take place and grow.

Terrified...

That’s not the word that comes to mind for most people when describing a future without the responsibilities of running a business. It’s not the word that comes up when imagining a life with the time to do whatever you want to do, and sufficient financial reserves to fund a range of options. So why is that the word I hear most often?

Often, business owners confide in me about their plans for succession and how they are thinking about a full, or some sort of partial exit. Whether they are 55 or 75 years old, the most common emotion they express to me is fear. Despite a successful, financially rewarding career as an owner, this is a major life change, and they have fear.  In some cases it’s a subtle gnawing fear – more of an uncertainty about getting started or a discomfort thinking  about ‘what’s next’, making it easy to go on with business as usual. In other cases it’s a constant stressor as worries about finding that right buyer/successor, , concerns about fully funding their lifestyle in retirement, waning energy levels, or what to do with endless hours of free time permeate sleepless nights or creep in during the busyness of the day. 

Our perceptions, their reality

I know what you’re thinking…You’re thinking ‘That’s crazy! Those worries are unfounded. They are successful business owners! Hard charging, financially savvy, with a backlog of activities they never had the time to do! This will simply be the next stage of a wonderful, earned, and well-deserved life!’

Sadly, that’s rarely what I hear. The fear they face is often due to one of the following:

1.       Stress from the reality of letting go of their business. This includes the stresses of finding a trusted, qualified buyer, negotiating through the sale or transfer of their business, and the uncertainty of whether their financial return will meet expectations…or worse, their base financial requirements.

2.       Losing their identity, and in some cases – their perceived status, built over a lifetime of growing and leading a successful business. Who am I if I am not the owner of…?

3.       Uncertainty about ‘what’s next?’.  In our achievement-oriented culture, retirement/semi-retirement is treated as an exciting, coveted time! But many owners fear endless days of nothing -- boredom. And worse, they believe that if they broach the subject of their uncertainty with friends or family, they will be ridiculed or summarily dismissed. And they just might be!

The reality is that every owner will leave his or her business one day. Whether they leave to go TO something they have been waiting to do all of their life, find themselves ousted from the business as a new owner takes over, or they experience health or family issues…. They will exit.

The opportunity

To do it well, we need to address the fear. How? First, we need to talk about it! We need to reduce the stigma associated with the stress and uncertainty that comes with a life change of this magnitude. A change this big will often come with a wide range of emotions. Holding them inside serves no one. We need to be able to talk about them, express them, seek out others who are facing them as well. Let’s de-stigmatize the fear! 

We also need to take action. We need to come together to create an environment where it’s acceptable, even encouraged, to acknowledge the stressors, and then we need to build systems and structures to navigate the transition from business ownership to what’s next. We need to support each other as we figure out how to let go of the responsibilities and identities that served us so well in the past and craft new ones, creating a different and exciting future.

Cultural Shifts

Some of the most significant shifts in our cultural and social norms have come from the combination of changing demographics, a collective recognition that change is necessary, and the innovation and creation of a whole new set of systems and structures to facilitate that change.  It’s time to create a shift. With baby boomers turning 68 this year, six to 8 Million businesses will be changing hands in the next nine years. We need to address the stress and uncertainty head on. This is not just a nice to do. It’s imperative.

What are you willing to acknowledge…even if only to yourself?

Abby Was Quoted In Kiplinger’s Personal Finance Magazine

Get In on a Stellar Second Act by Janet Bodnar

I retired as editor of Kiplinger’s, I was asked to continue writing my Money Smart Women column and to launch this new column on retirement living. One year later, I’m happy doing both. But I sometimes wonder if I should be doing something completely different from my previous profession—say, learning how to tap dance (which I’ve actually looked into). 

I put that question to Abby Donnelly, founder of The Leadership & Legacy Group, who counsels retiring executives on how to transition to their next phase of life. Donnelly responded by asking me a question: “Do you still feel you’re connecting with readers and helping them make good financial decisions?” Definitely, I replied. Then don’t worry, she said. “You’ve retired to something you find meaningful and rewarding.”

Donnelly draws a distinction between interests—in my case, tap dancing—and activities that deliver purpose and meaning, the holy grail of a fulfilling retirement. And there’s no one route to that goal. “Some people just want to do what they did before, but less of it and with more control, while others want to try something they never knew existed,” says Marci Alboher, author of The Encore Career Handbook. Alboher is also vice president of Encore.org, which sponsors fellowships that encourage baby boomers to use their skills to help their communities (see an interview with her in the February Ahead).